Curse

Epic Monkey Battle · Nov 23, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Since the update, and WoH becoming better than ZB, I have been running this:
Healing - 12 + 1 + 1
Protection - 10 + 1
Divine - 8 + 1
[skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Word Of Healing[/skill][skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill][skill]Shield Of Absorption[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Cure Hex[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill]

JoeKnowMo · Nov 23, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

[skill]Glyph of Renewal[/skill] & [wiki]Selfless Spirit[/wiki] or [skill]Divine Spirit[/skill]
[skill]Heal Other[/skill] or [wiki]Healing Ribbon[/wiki][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Mend Condition[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill] or [skill]Guardian[/skill]

moriz · Nov 23, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

guardian
cure hex
rof
WoH {e}
dismiss condition
spirit bond/prot spirit
SoA
glyph of lesser
14 heal, 10 prot, 10 div

since AB can be considered pve as well, i've been fooling around with something like this:

mo/a
guardian
cure hex
glimmer of light {e}
disrupting dagger
dismiss condition
spirit bond
return
dark escape
14 heal, 10 div, 10 prot, 3 shadow, 1 deadly
perfect for popping all the stupid assassins' combos.

JoeKnowMo · Nov 25, 2007, 12:35 AM // 00:35

I have a suggestion regarding the collection of builds in this thread, Masamune.

It would be nice to have a rating (on a 10-point scale) for each build. Although builds in the 6-10 point range will likely be good enough to finish the game, readers ought to be aware of the relative differences between these builds.

Snow Bunny · Nov 27, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33

WoH
RoF
Guardian
Aegis
P.Spirit
D.Kiss
Dismiss Condition
H.Veil

For more active monking, use RC/SoD and switch out Kiss for Gift, as usual. And no, there's no glyph there. PvE doesn't require it. Monk bars are cluttered as they are. Aegis = Emanage

i know, pretty meh. But then again, all pve, including HM, is pretty meh.

My heroes always include Olias as the N/Rt SS.
Possible players on the bench include a
BHA Margrid,
Jagged Bomber N/Rt MoW w/ 9 spec Prot was Kaolai
Dual Attune RI spam Sousuke
Cautery Sig Koss (it works :P)
Another N/Rt SS, with more Resto spells
...

or...my absolute favorite

W/E Rodgort's Mark FDS wielding Jora teamed up with Fragility/Phantom Pain/Virulence Gwen gogogogogogogogo condition spike

EDIT: WTF happened to the font?

Div · Nov 27, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

I have a suggestion regarding the collection of builds in this thread, Masamune.

It would be nice to have a rating (on a 10-point scale) for each build. Although builds in the 6-10 point range will likely be good enough to finish the game, readers ought to be aware of the relative differences between these builds.

Great idea. Just hoping I'll get enough support in this. I can independently rate all the builds, and IMO it'd be a fairly good indicator of how good the build is, but people will whine if there's only one reviewer, so I'm hoping for more :P

JoeKnowMo · Nov 27, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Great idea. Just hoping I'll get enough support in this. I can independently rate all the builds, and IMO it'd be a fairly good indicator of how good the build is, but people will whine if there's only one reviewer, so I'm hoping for more :P

I don't want to increase the workload of the volunteers, but I think that in addition to a build rating, there needs to an 'Ease of Use' rating. Imho this is key because a novice monk will find a simple make-red-bars-go-up build more effective than a heavy-prot build. Considering the target audience of this project, you'd probably have many lose faith in the rating system if they tried the top-rated builds and did worse than with their Orison/Healing Breeze builds.

Good project.

I hope you're having good luck finding reviewers. Tighten the thumbscrews on Tommy and Ensign if you're having trouble.

Wakka · Nov 27, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Used to run this...

[skill]Glyph of Renewal[/skill][skill]Divine Spirit[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Guardian[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Divine Boon[/skill]

Haha was more a gimmick than anything

ender6 · Nov 27, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Great idea. Just hoping I'll get enough support in this. I can independently rate all the builds, and IMO it'd be a fairly good indicator of how good the build is, but people will whine if there's only one reviewer, so I'm hoping for more :P

If your hoping to rank the monk builds, i would suggest you pick 3 different areas out in PvE -- 1) heavy degen area 2) heavy damage area 3) combination of pressure/spike (or something to that effect), and test the individual monks builds paired with the same 3 heros + 4 hench. Then you can asess their individual strengths and weaknesses and come to a more objective conclusion.

Or you could just rank the builds via voting like you originally suggested.

Koda Kumi · Nov 27, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

1) heavy degen area

I would say 'take a dungeon with a rich variety of driders'. I don't remember if it was the Sepulchre of Dagrimmar or another one, but I remember getting lots of hexes on me. Alternatively you can try the chaos plains in UW but that's quite a trip of its own. Also, Urgoz's Warren has an area with heavy degen of its own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

2) heavy damage area

Any area in DoA falls under this specifiaction :P but the destroyer-heavy dungeons in EotN have some heavy hitters too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

3) combination of pressure/spike

Frostmaw's Burrows. Or mr. One-Man-Spike himself (you know who I mean).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

Or you could just rank the builds via voting like you originally suggested.

Good point. But you need to give constructive criticism too. Just hearing 'ur build sux' is not that educational, nor will such a statement be taken seriously. And by looking at the builds posted here, I feel that some criticism would be welcome.

Burst Cancel · Nov 28, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

I'm forced to point out that "welcome" and "needed" are not the same thing.

To explain why most of the builds here are terribad would require Walls of Fail (TM) that are neither welcome nor worth the effort, frankly.

And converting a handful of Gurus readers isn't going to make any difference when 99% of the playerbase fail at GW, will always fail at GW, and most importantly, absolutely don't care at all that they fail at GW. I've been doing a lot of PUGing recently for the heck of it, and I've completely given up on trying to help or correct anyone. Yeah, bring Orison and Breeze. Go ahead, bring Hundred Blades. Life Sheath? Go for it. I'll just bring WoH and my 3 heroes we'll finish the mission no matter what you bring.

JoeKnowMo · Nov 28, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

To explain why most of the builds here are terribad would require Walls of Fail (TM) that are neither welcome nor worth the effort, frankly.

Agreed. We don't want to over-encumber the reviewers.

That being said, I'll retract my suggestion about a rating for 'Ease of Use' for builds. Maybe just a sentence or two in the preface about prot being more effective but harder to play than healing would suffice.

Quote:

And converting a handful of Gurus readers isn't going to make any difference when 99% of the playerbase fail at GW, will always fail at GW, and most importantly, absolutely don't care at all that they fail at GW.

People don't like to fail. It's often a combination of limited experience and a limited understanding of the game that leads to bad builds.

Being successful with bad builds makes them think that deviating from them will lead to failure. For example, every pug wants to take a tank to Thommis/Rand when the run atcually goes much faster with an MM instead.

Quote:

I'll just bring WoH and my 3 heroes we'll finish the mission no matter what you bring.

I helped someone yesterday with the Gadd and Golemancer missions in HM. They were playing a nuker with 370 HP and had a monk hero with mending, breeze, holy wrath, and no blessed sig even. We still finished both missions with very little trouble.

I did tell them to check out Guru when we were done.

Burst Cancel · Nov 30, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Ease of Use is pretty easy to determine. The easiest monk bar to play is WoH + 7 empty slots. A lot of builds on this forum with 8 skills actually aren't significantly better than just WoH alone, and are much harder to use than just hitting one button. That's a pretty good indication that the build is epic fail.

People don't like to fail per se, but they sure as hell don't give a damn that they do. I'm not going to argue that people go out of their way to fail, but they absolutely don't care to put effort into not failing. Most of the people playing GW are strictly 'casual' - they have neither the time nor the inclination to get better at something they view as a merely a pleasant distraction.

So the problem here is that, in order to explain something to these people, even something that's plainly obvious to better players (i.e., why Orison is bad), requires that they understand things about the game that they simply don't care about in the first place. Healing efficiency? WTF? They just know that they can hit a button and watch red bars go up, and they finished the whole game doing that. Why fix what ain't broke?

That's a very high wall of ignorance to scale, just to explain to someone why a skill is bad. I used to think it was worth the effort, but after taking a step back and thinking about it I'm puzzled as to why I ever thought so. People just want to be left alone, ignorant or not, and really, no amount of Gurus posting is going to make much of a difference. I wish it weren't so but ...

OS T · Nov 30, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I support ash in this 1.healing breeze defines who you are as a monk,end of story.

I dont mix heal with prott,so I go full heal,divine,prott when I heal or prott so I can get max healing and max negating dmg in prott.
well can write my zb:

zb
rof
dismiss
PS
Smite hex
gole
aegis
rebirth

SOR build:
SOR
Rof
dismiss
ps
Shielding hands
gole
aegis
rebirth

my woh:

Signet of devo/signet of revvu
woh
orison
etheral
healing touch
gole
holy haste
ress chant

My lod:
very much the same ass woh,just swap out woh and take in lod

Healers Boon build:
signet of devo
signet of revvu
orison
etheral light
healing touch
gole
holy haste
Healers boon
ress chant

thats the builds im using and it works very good for me..

valence · Nov 30, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

WoH
WoH
RoF
Guardian
Aegis
P.Spirit
D.Kiss
Dismiss Condition
H.Veil

For more active monking, use RC/SoD and switch out Kiss for Gift, as usual. And no, there's no glyph there. PvE doesn't require it. Monk bars are cluttered as they are. Aegis = Emanage

I disagree on the e-manage part. I think the amount of e-manage I need depends entirely on the team. A good team requires less healing/protting, less energy. A blind spammer/warder/curse spammer all reduce the need for prots, in the end the need for energy. When you pug, most of the time you are better of with some form of e-manage.

In pve I always take Prot Spirit over Spirit Bond, this is solely for bosses who like to instagib in 1 hit. My heroes take Spirit Bond, couse they Spirit Bond after the first hit (which is to late vs the instagibbers ;p).

Our build is quite the same, I drop Dwayna for GoLe and Cure Hex instead of Veil. I Like Cure as pre-veiling is not really needed in PvE and it helps versus degen variants you might encounter.

Snow Bunny · Nov 30, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by valence

I disagree on the e-manage part. I think the amount of e-manage I need depends entirely on the team. A good team requires less healing/protting, less energy. A blind spammer/warder/curse spammer all reduce the need for prots, in the end the need for energy. When you pug, most of the time you are better of with some form of e-manage.

In pve I always take Prot Spirit over Spirit Bond, this is solely for bosses who like to instagib in 1 hit. My heroes take Spirit Bond, couse they Spirit Bond after the first hit (which is to late vs the instagibbers ;p).

Our build is quite the same, I drop Dwayna for GoLe and Cure Hex instead of Veil. I Like Cure as pre-veiling is not really needed in PvE and it helps versus degen variants you might encounter.

Drop Dwayna? Yeesh. Maybe drop Guardian for Gole, mainly because monsters rarely train that hard.
If you're gonna take GoLE, take your 20/20 set so that you can get a guaranteed HSR and spend no additional energy.

Amadei · Nov 30, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

I love this thread; keep the builds coming!

FC_DriFteR · Dec 01, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

the only place I seem to run my monk at the moment is in slavers exile. The prot bar I have been running is;

1. RoF
2. GoH
3. SoA/Shielding Hands
4. Prot Spirit
5. RC
6. Gole
7. life bond
8. balth spirit

Has worked fine in both NM and HM. No hex removal but 1 healer and or necro with hex removal seems to do the trick for the groups I've played with. With the amount of energy return from LB on tank combined with BS you have a decent amount of energy coming your way.

ender6 · Dec 02, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC_DriFteR

the only place I seem to run my monk at the moment is in slavers exile. The prot bar I have been running is;

1. RoF
2. GoH
3. SoA/Shielding Hands
4. Prot Spirit
5. RC
6. Gole
7. life bond
8. balth spirit

Has worked fine in both NM and HM. No hex removal but 1 healer and or necro with hex removal seems to do the trick for the groups I've played with. With the amount of energy return from LB on tank combined with BS you have a decent amount of energy coming your way.

If it works it works, do what you do. I for one have always found gimick skill combos (Balth + life bond) to be a crutch -- and in the long run they seem to come back to haunt you.

I Angra I · Dec 05, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

The two monks that myself and the people I pve with always use for HM are:

Healer's Boon
Dwaynas
Heal Party
Prot Spirit
Mend Condition
Cure Hex
Aegis
GoLE

Rof
Prot Spirit
WoH
Mend Condition
Cure Hex
Aegis
SoA/Guardian
GoLE/Channeling/extra slot

or in physical heavy areas, SoD instead of WoH and Gift instead of SoA/Guardian